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+--- Thread: 10,000 Catholics 'de-baptise' themselves due to Pope's comments- thoughts on this? (/thread-58008.html)
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- lazybones - 01-27-2013 08:09 AM
Whether they realise it or not (or even care), renouncing their baptismal vows is a public rejection of Christ and His redemptive sacrifice for them individually. Like you correctly said, one can't un-baptise oneself but rejecting baptism is a very strong statement to make. It won't hurt the Pope but it may have a large effect for the persons themselves.
The Vatican/RCC is not here to suit the needs and desires of people. RCC exists to be the physical representative of God on Earth; it serves to show the correct, safest and 'easiest' way to live a life in harmony with the Gospel. RCC keeps it's focus on God, not on fads and current trends.
Good or bad is not my place to call.....
Some members have lost respect due to the actions of some Church members.
I like the Pope and I'd like to read more of his writings- he's a very, very intelligent man.
Benedict...strict?? He is a very gentle man but he knows the truth and does not deviate from it. If that is incorrectly perceived by you as harsh and bullying, maybe he's not the prejudiced one? The Church places God's approval over the approval of Man.
In Western Society, it appears to be declining but Christ is the man who raises the dead, so I have no great fear for the Church.
- John S - 01-27-2013 08:09 AM
As a Catholic..
Wow!...just wow! -- both at the over-reaction as well as the 'spin doctors' who are mis reporting this.
First things first... "website traffic" does not mean actual Catholics who left.
the ACTUAL report simply stated that this one site (I'm sure there are more) saw traffic increase from 10 to 10,000
1) are those unique IPs (visitors)? -- probably, as it is pretty easy to differentiate, but the report doesn't exactly say. 1 person could visit the site multiple times, and unless the traffic analyzer ignores my subsequent visits.. I could unintentionally inflate that number.
2) No one says that those are even Catholics. They could be merely interested people who heard about the site.
3) No where can he validate how many went through with it.
4) Wouldn't it be more reliable to try and get these numbers from the Dioceses in the Netherlands to see how many forms they actually GOT?
5) How many of these 'baptized Catholics" were non-practicing already or had left the church long ago and are part of the 44% of Dutch who claim to be non-religious..but were Catholic according to Baptismal records??
So these are things we have to ask..before anti-theists get all giddy and claim that the church is becoming irrelevant.
BUT as for your questions..
<<Are the Vatican becoming more remote from their worshippers?>>
Don't think so.. if anything LESS. The Pope has Facebook, YouTube, and recently a Twitter account. He is the most accessible Pope of all time. He even Texts with his phone.
Record numbers keep attending World Youth Day and he is the first Pope to go to England in decades.
The Church is actually entering what it calls "A Spring time of faith"
<<Are these Catholics bad Christians?>>
We don't know and shouldn't pass judgement. There is limited evidence to even suggest that the anonymous traffic is from actual Catholics.
<<Is the church losing the respect of it's members?>>
I'm sure SOME. People get offended at all kinds of things.
I think his comments were for a certain audience..however, he should know that they would be picked up by the media. So I think his choice of words was claumsy and he knows it.. I think he meant it to stirr things up..that's my opinion. He has a history of NOT sugar coating things.
Pope John Paul 2nd was more touchy feely -- Pope Benedict is more like a calculating academic. Like a Law Professor.
Brilliant mind and strategist..but NOT very touchy feely and cuddly.
<<What is the general opinion of the pope?>>
See above... NOT like Pope John Paul the 2nd, for sure. But brilliant in his own right.
<<Is the pope, being a strict man, a good thing for the church (standing up for it's opinions, whether they are popular or not) or an out-of-touch prejudiced bully that's damaging the church's reputation further? >>
Those who were on the fence.. this may push over. Divide the chaff from the wheat.
Those that already disliked the Church and what it stands for now have another reason.
Those who are steadfast Catholics.. this changes nothing.
<<Is Catholicism dying a slow death?>>
That has been the prediction since Rome persecuted Christians.. 2,000 years later.. people should know not to bet against the church.
Yet, still people claim that its demise is emminient or 'slowly dying'
Despite these dire predictions from those outside of the church... Worldwide.. most surveys or estimates show 1 or 2 things.
1) it is holding steady - replacing members as fast as it is losing them
2) some pew reports show a 3-6% increase depending upon which estimates you use.
The Catholic church is a world wide religion (actually Universal, seeing how the Mass has been celebrated in Space, aboard the U.S. Space shuttle) and so loosing members in one place is not a huge concern.
- Eire7 - 01-27-2013 08:09 AM
I doubt the figure is true if at all, was it the anti-Catholic media saying this? thought so. The Pope is supposed to stand up for the teachings that Jesus gave us, if people aren't happy with it they are stating they don't agree with God.
- me - 01-27-2013 08:09 AM
You didnt post a link so don't know if it is true.
Either way those people are the kind that don't even go to church anyways. How is it they would be Catholic all these years when the church has always been against gay marriage and only now they wait for the pope to simply state the churches position they leave? Why didnt they leave when Pope John Paul II said it? Why didnt they leave it when they opened the catechism?
Because they never read the catechism, they never went to mass and only knew the pope said anything because only now the media is so obsessed with the gay agenda.