How much of the immigration argument is racially motivated?

[Standing Stone]

I find it very disturbing that two groups (whites and blacks)
that as little as 40 years ago could not get along; can now
sit at water coolers and talk pure trash about people of hispanic descent. Is hatred the tie that binds?

My father and I came to disagreement about this. He tried to say that there are two many illegals over here of hispanic dissent. Then in the next breath he said that he noticed all of the fast food jobs taken up by mexican immigrants. This is how I responded:

1. They can't be illegal ifd they've filled out W2 forms. That is the only way you can work at a fast food establishment.
2. Free trade works every where. If I wanted a job abroad I could get one.
3. Most of the jobs taken are low paying jobs that most Americans would shun.
4. Jobs in the manufacturing and private sector require more education than the average illegal possesses. So where is this threat coming from?
Dear Mr. Shawn Lacey,
If sitting around water coolers with others making disparaging , intolerant comments about Mexican people is a pre-requisite for being called American
you can just call me a global citizen or a human. Those two things are more important to me anyway. Thank you for your answer.
Dear Mr. Shane Ladd I'm not of hispanic descent. Check out my profile.
I wrote this question because I don't believe America should contain Clanish
citizens. " Give us your tired, your poor,
your huddled masses". That phrase was never intended to be color specific.
Steven D. and Devil's Advocate thanx for your well thought out and unemotional answers. They are very informative.
Vladbutslauger, I understand your point.
It is hard not to lower yourself to some one elses level when you are being called names. However we all have to remember that two wrongs don't make a right. Three lefts do. Also, it helps to try and consider the source of the other
groups anger.
A few questions I would like to add:
Are the European illegal immigrants that make up 6% are any less of a problem in your eyes?

Since roughly 80% of the workforce of all abbatoirs, chicken , hog, and Dairy farms is of hispanic dissent. Would you be willing to give up your flesh foods? Who would slaughter, decapitate, disembowl, and dissect your meat?
To everyone:
I recognize my ignorance about the falsification of documents in order to obtain w2 forms.

[jojo9]

ALL of it! Although they won't admit it! They are afraid of Mexicans taking over! Eventually they probably will and the whites are afraid of becoming a minority!

[wilie l]

Amigo are you tone deaf? The mexicans broke the law by coming into america and should go home. why should i have to pay for their babies, education, medical, increased law enforcement and I have been hit in a car accident with a illegal alien with no insurance and no identification. why does america have to put up with this and not complain? All americans black and white must rally and send these people home and vote for politicians who will.

[Thomas M]

I don't think it's really racism. Racism implies actual hatred. I think it's more that a lot of people are uncomfortable with change. They are fearful that they will end up as a minority. Add to that all sorts of hysteria over crimes committed by a tiny tiny fraction of illegals, and it gets people worked up over something that just makes the goods and services they buy cheaper.

[Shaneladd]

You Latinos are just too emotional and thin-skinned. We are angry about illegal immigration and most of the illegals are Latino. Why is it that the vast majority of Latinos favor amnesty for illegal aliens? Could it be racially motivated, because most of the illegal aliens are Latino? Oh, no La Raza (The Race) could never be guilty of racism, could they?

[sony]

They can't be illegal if they've filled out W2 forms if this were so why then is document fraud at it's highest peak ? 2-You cannot just up and go some where what you left out there is a process to go through. By 3 you already are saying when we see jobs you say Americans shun we can therefore see it is someone with fake documents who lied to get that job and is illegal but didn't they fill out a W2 form at some point ?.4 if 4 were true how do they find any Mexicans in Mexico to work at any US plants since it requires more education ?

[Julianna]

I am of hispanic descent as is most of my family. I am married to a man who is hispanic and an immigrant (legal) We believe something needs to be done about illegal immigration. It's not about race. It just so happens that most of the illegal immigrants who are causing problems are from Mexico. And yes, you can fill out W2 forms with a stolen Social security #.

[The Joker]

I take it you are out of the will now?

Immigration is not a matter of race; it is a matter of illegality. And white and black Americans share a disdain for illegal criminals....regardless of race.

As far as your response to Dear Ole Dad:

1. Many illegals have stolen or falsified social security numbers. You can complete a W2 with false information.

2. You can only get a job if you a) enter a country legally or b) commit an illegal act.

3. Jobs americans would shun...???? Hello???? who did those jobs BEFORE we were invaded? AMERICANS!! Duh.

4. There are NO manufacturing jobs in the US, where did you get your non-degree in Economics? Many illegals work construction, genius. Taking what was formerly good paying middle class jobs, undercutting the pay, and putting americans out of work.

Give your dad my regards. he's a good man. I'm sure he's heartbroken.

[Steven D]

It's 50/50. You're right that a lot of people irrationally fear undocumented aliens and make all kinds of stereotypes around them.
Referring to your numbered points. Number 1 is fallacious. There are all kinds of ways of getting around the I-9 (that's the form you're really talking about). There's fake ID cards, stealing social security #'s, dishonest employers, etc., etc.

Point 3 is debatable. You're right when you're talking about fast food jobs. What about construction jobs? It's an industry that once was a medium-high wage industry that is now a low-pay industry. Illegal immigration is in large part the reason, along with union busting, stagnant minimum wages, etc.

Point 4--see point 3. You're right that most illegal immigrants aren't going to work as software engineers. But they might work as carpenters, electricians, all kinds of other skilled trade positions.

That being said, the answer is not to deport everyone. That would be a human rights crime of terrible proportions. But it's time for an open debate about how much immigration we need, and how to control it so that we can have a working labor market.

That's not the 2 second Yahoo Answers soundbite answer, but I hope it's informative.

[waswisgirl1]

I agree that the immigration issue is an issue primarily for politicians, so they can talk about it instead of the Iraq war or health care or social security, since they certainly don't want to talk about any those issues, since they don't have a clue what to do about any of them.

But the way the immigration issue has become "popular" among the average American is by use of racism. What a crock of bs that it's "not a racial issue". The Southern Law and Poverty Center has documented that anti-immigration hate groups have sky-rocketed. They've also compiled a list of the most frequent immigration-hate "facts" stated by politicians, the media, and talk radio, which are primarily made up of misinformation, exaggerations, or outright lies.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelrepo...sp?sid=415

For example the racist CLAIM that "Undocumented immigrants are "stealing" American jobs", is refuted by SPLC:

FACTS: The 2006 Pew Hispanic Center study, "Growth in the Foreign-Born Workforce and Employment of the Native Born," found no evidence that the large increases in immigration since 1990 have led to higher unemployment among native Americans. The center examined census data on the increase in immigrants in each of the 50 states, comparing those figures to state jobless rates and participation in the labor force by the native born. Although immigrants tended to be younger and less educated than native workers, the report found "no apparent relationship between the growth of foreign workers with less education and the employment outcome of native workers with the same level of education." These findings were in line with those of most economists, who have failed to find a link between immigration and job loss. "The big message here," said University of California economist Giovanni Peri, who conducted a similar study in California, "is there is no job loss from immigration." --duh to the racists

How about the other racist CLAIM: "Immigrants are depressing the wages of native Americans."

SLPC has compiled FACTS: Despite what many view as the intuitively obvious relationship of immigration to wages, the fact is that most economists have not found a significant link between rising immigration and falling wages, the exception being studies in the early 1990s that showed a slight negative effect on African-American high school dropouts' pay. Overall, the National Academy of Sciences found in a broad look at the question in 1997, there was "only a weak relationship between native wages and the number of immigrants" in a given place. This was true for all types of native workers. The one group that did suffer were "immigrants from earlier waves, for whom the recent immigrants are close substitutes in the labor market." More recent studies have actually found a positive effect on native wages. The Public Policy Institute of California published a study this year that found that immigrants arriving in that state between 1990 and 2004 increased native-born workers' wages by 4%. The benefits, attributed to immigrants generally performing complementary rather than competitive work, extended to native workers at all educational levels.

Just like the Irish, Germans, Poles, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Laotion, and Cambodians have all been "welcomed" when they immigrated to our country, once again we open our arms to immigrants.

What happens if you dare stand up to the hatred disguised as "protecting American rights":

"One wanted to kick me in the uterus until I couldn't have children. Others have all kinds of really lewd and awful threats. ... [I]f the goal of these people was to scare me, it worked."
— Arizona Rep. KYRSTEN SINEMA (D-Phoenix), describing in the Jan. 30 issue of The Arizona Republic the rape and death threats she received after proposing a bill that would have outlawed armed civilian border patrol groups.

FYI: I lived in Arizona in the 1980's and was shocked at the level of hatred openly displayed towards anyone of Latino descent (legal immigrant or not). A white, male, upper-middle class co-worker "explained" Arizona pecking order to me soon after I moved there: "Whites run the show, blacks aren't that bad or asians, but <expletive> Mexicans are scum. Native Americans stay on their reservations. " I was so shocked I had no idea what to say. I was speechless. I couldn't stand to be around this man again. Needless to say, I didn't live there long. I live in NC, here everyone is treated like scum, except the white and wealthy.