Am I a libertarian or just a pragmatic Collectivist?

[Un3ven]

Are you more driven by a belief in objective morality of what you call "liberty", or a pragmatic approach to government policy regarding economics? I've recently become more than open to the possibility that government intervention might actually be preventing people from providing for themselves. I never have lived on any form of government assistance (well unless u want to say ive been in the lowest bracket of our progressive tax system and had acess to services i didn't in a lot of cash for). I am currently living back at home and working only part time so i can attend school (i got to a community college and have zero student loans or debt). But prior to this fall, i worked 40 hrs a week at a place ive worked since ive been 16...I made about 10.00 an hour (got several raises over the years). I lived in the cheapest apartment in my area..the next cheapest was 100.00 more a month and the average apartment was about $150-$200. I had a roommate and we got a two bedroom place...but without my roommate's income, i would not have even been accepted as a tenant (most places require you to make 3 times your rent). I imagined what life would be like if i lost my job, if my job (was not within walking distance (it was for me) and i needed major repairs to my car, got sick, or my hours got cut back...i could be in a bad position. Never mind I didn't have time or money for college or education to gain new skills/credentials. So, with this realization, i was always a loyal democrat...believing that i was a hard working person, always willing to work ( i would have taken a second job..but working retail.service demands a flexible schedule...trying to schedule 2 such jobs would likely cause a reduction of hours at both employers)...but the free market could not be trusted to provide opportunity for me..so its more than fair to demand the welathy who benefit from the work of lower level labores should have to help pay into a safety net for those workers. But i had a friend who I was talking politics one day, and i knew he was a republican (not a libertarian, right wing on military spending, social issues etc.). and i was expecting the "well tough luck, the government doesnt owe you anyhting specch" but instead he laid out a pretty good case that section 8 housing and other assitance actually interferes with an equilibirum that would exist in a market without subsiidised housing. He also made the arguement that federal student loans do the same thing to education. The thing is though...I would be in favor of government intevention IF...IF....it worked..but I believe it actually is msiguided. However, I don't reject it because I diagree with the idea of redistirbution. To me...theft can come in the form of wage slavery and even in the context of legal ownership and property rights. I've heard libertarians explain that "force" is the antithesis of liberty..and that voluntary interaction and trade is what should be allowed. But the thing is...a free market economy as its known by libertarians currently is dependent upon ownership...ownership can only be established by force...ownership of land...resources...etc. So, basically I don't believe in any obejctive moral defintion of liberty that needs to upheld. I simply believe on a pragmatic level that crony capitalism, and misguided government intervention is to blame for getting in the way of an equilibirum that allows all working people to meet their basic needs, and for propping up corporate elites that otherwise would be on a level palkying field. And as i was when i was a progressive, I am socially liberal and think the miliutary industrial complex and police state are out of control. I also believe in certain safety nets for those who truly cant provide for themselves or who are simply down on their luck but are willing to work.I don't know if I should refer to myself as a libertarian?

[Damon Lyon]

You are someone who believes that people will read that entire one paragraph essay about your opinions then decide your political affiliation for you.

[Peace be upon you]

Can you edit this down and put some indentations in here and there bud, I would love to read it but it's giving me a headache?

[Brotherhood]

no way in hell im reading all that

[shallowtemper516]

I would defiantly consider yourself a libertarian. You make some interesting points but nothing that hasn't already been stated in such libertarian works as "The God Component" and "Declaration of Independents".