Why do people think social democracy like they have in Europe is anything close to actual socialism?

[comrade otto]

I see this assessment made all the time. But how can it be true when Europe trades on the free market with other capitalists, where there isnt social equality and where leaders still pursue wars for profit?

Just because a country is a welfare state doesnt mean its a socialist state. Discuss...

[Wise Guy]

Very very good question, star for you.

The answer is simply, when people in America (alot of them) talk about Socialism in Europe, most "don't have a clue".

Blunt but very true, haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about

[me]

Socialism or any economic system has to do with how a countries economic priorities are in the internals of its country not how it bargains with those outside it. War for profit is capitalist and wrong, but it does not determine the countries internal structure just how it handles affairs outside its borders.
Socialism is not communism. Socialism is that which stands between Capitalism and Communism. In a socialistic society people are given the means to be independent and successful. Free education from elementary too higher. Health care is consider a moral obligation. And work a means in life not the end there in. Family is priority.

Go to any YA European sites and ask them how they feel about their economic system lets see what responses you get back. How many will say they do not support socialism.

[Joe S]

Definitions are subjective. In addition to disputing whether "actual" socialism exists in Europe or anywhere, people may (and have) disputed whether true capitalism exists anywhere either.

People who throw around labels without clear definitions are unlikely to explain themselves well. Usually, I figure that they do not have very deep understandings themselves.

I think that markets and other individual, voluntary associations dominate European society more than the state. Europe is far from a complete socialist state in which the rulers direct production and all other important activities. At the same time, I am of the understanding that European society places a great deal of power into the hands of its rulers to direct many activities. Clearly, its health care systems are much more socialistic than in the United States (where I describe them as more fascist than socialist - certainly not free market). I have gathered that European governments intervene greatly in labor arrangements. And as you recognized, European nations have very progressive welfare programs.

All of my understanding is anecdotal as I have only briefly traveled in Europe and have never lived there. I am quite open to be corrected by anyone with more direct experience.

According to how I define socialism, Europe seems very far along a spectrum toward socialism. At the same time, the United States has adopted many practices that I believe are very socialist. The term "socialist" has taken on a pejorative connotation. I think that the connotation is well earned, but we will do better carefully analyzing the specific facts of a society and making informed judgments than throwing the word around as a slogan.

[miniaturelace125]

Most people ignore what Socialism is , they think it is welfare and State Capitalism ( Nationalizations , etc).But the average Joe is not guilty , there were many "socialist" parties that consciously fueled that concept,specially on times of crisis, they were the last recourse against Social Revolution.

[Eartha W]

I blame their sh*tty education system...and the barrage of propaganda they have been subjected to over the last 60 years.

The Cold War left a lot of scars on the American psyche, obviously.