Ethical vegans: Would you agree to go to a restaurant with people who will buy non-vegan food?

[scottishguy111]

Do you feel upset living in a house that animals died to make (land clearance) do you feel sad driving on roads where animals used to live.....if not then you are only a vegan on selective moral grounds and therefore your point about milkshakes is flawed.

[shanainka]

For some reason, I can be in the same room as meat and not collapse, so yes, I could go to a restaurant where there is non-vegan food, because I'll get the vegan thing. Maybe I haven't been vegan long enough?

Anyways, what should you do. You obviously have a problem with going out to non-vegan restaurants. If I were a meat-eater, I wouldn't have a problem with you thinking meat is gross, SO LONG AS YOU DON'T PREACH AT ME. When someone is a vegan, it can make social situations awkward, and sometimes we may find ourselves compromising our beliefs with our social life.

You have 3 options:

1. Try to find some good vegan restaurants in your area, and suggest to go to that place instead of a steakhouse. Probably the best option.

2. You could decline going to that restaurant, sacrificing your social life to maintain your ethics. Not a practical option

3. You could go to the restaurant, and stomach sitting at the same table where meat is served. Not a viable option for you.

[Happy Hippie]

It is difficult, I agree with you. It can feel really weird. I try to think I'm eating with cats or dogs (so that it doesn't feel so weird to see another being eating animal products). It usually works... and if I can, I explain them why what they're buying is not good for them or for the animals, if they're willing to listen. And I offer them alternatives.

Another good option is, find a nice vegan restaurant and show them how many yummy options there are, that don't require killing or hurting others... or cook the food yourself at home. That's a great option too. :-)

[Learner]

"Am I right to feel this way?"
Excellent question, thanks for asking.

As humans, we've evolved as social animals. Our innate biological and sociological drive is to fit in, to be valued for our contributions, to look up to and respect characteristics or behaviors we admire, to like and BE liked. However, as humans, we also posses, intellectually and emotionally, a sharply defined grasp of concepts like justice, fairness and sympathy, and correspondingly, protest against perceived injustice, unfairness and unsympathetic acts.

Reconciling the two -- group conformity and our feelings if misaligned with the group -- is never easy, and it is no doubt particularly difficult for one who is cognizant and compassionate. See, in our society, cruelty is ubiquitous, and animal use (read abuse) is considered the norm. Even if your instinct may demand that you scream out against it, group-think and peer pressure will teach you (if you ever dare to give it voice), in no uncertain terms, to clamp it down hard and fast else risk losing your social standing.

Caught in this seemingly unresolvable dilemma, we question ourselves, our feelings. Is it right to feel the way we do? Is it right to feel aversion? Is it right to feel resentment against those who don't "get it?"

I want to assure you that Yes, it is right, it is right to feel all of those things. Not only is it right, it is the *only normal* reaction, unadulterated with societal expectations and impositions. It is normal to find cruelty repulsive. It is normal to feel anger at injustice. It is normal to feel frustration at apathy. Don't question your anger, don't suppress your aversion, just feel it for what it is, for what it tells you about yourself. The day you cease to feel this, be alarmed.

"What should I about it?"
Now that we've established that feeling this way is normal, the question arises how we deal with it in a manner which does not compromise our safety or our sense of security, or cause us to behave in a manner which would result in isolation and loneliness (or in any more than what we're comfortable with or capable of handling). The approaches will vary for each individual, and no one here can tell you what that might be for you. If it helps you to be vocal about it, be so (you can express your thoughts on social media sites or a perhaps a blog) and introduce your friends to this topic via those mediums (which are typically a lot more non-threatening than a direct confrontation). *Most* people respect individual beliefs - and you may find surprising accommodation for your ideas amongst your friends. It is not guaranteed that they will come around to your way of thinking, but it is more than likely they will respect you for being true to yourself. Any mocking and teasing along the way generally tends to dissipate with time (and knowledge).

As for eating out, if eating out causes you to become uncomfortable, minimize those situations -- to the extent that you can and to the extent you're willing to be absent. Take your friends to vegan restaurants, or host a potluck which might give everyone a chance to show off their research and culinary skills, and have fun along the way.

As you go through life, realize that there WILL be times when you will find yourself, either voluntarily or involuntarily, exposed to the consumption of non-vegan food, at school, at work, at social gatherings with friends and family. As you begin to feel the familiar stirrings of discomfort, acknowledge it, embrace it -- and as you do, realize that you're paying homage to the part of you that is Beautiful, Caring, and Compassionate. There are many unfortunate ones who never will.

[NORML person]

i do that all the time. as long as i am not paying they people eating with me can get whatever they want. you have to look at these things big picture, just be a positive, healthy veg*n and people seem more likely to try a veg*n option around you. i feel like most of my friends have gradually moved towards eating meat less often in general thanks in part to my influence. if i had isolated myself and only ate with other veg*ns they probably would still be having meat at the same rate they were. i don't give lectures or guilt trips, or avoid situations where i will see people eating meat, i just do my thing, answer any questions, and let other people worry about their own diet.